Who?

[Richard Hachel]

If I put two watches of the same internal manufacture, that is to say two
watches of the same chronotropy (chronotropy is the internal way of a
watch to measure time), and I notice that one marks 3 o'clock, and the
other three and a quarter, I conclude that they are not synchronized.
Synchronizing two watches means for Dr. Hachel (I don't know about
others), that at a certain moment they mark the same time.
For example, I synchronize the watches at the start of the Langevin, and
the two watches mark t=0.
At the end of the experiment, the two watches are desynchronized, they no
longer mark the same time at the same instant for the observer.

Synchronizing means, matching the instants at a given moment, on watches
of identical chronotropy at the start.

Saying "and making them beat at the same rhythm" is ridiculous. This is
necessarily included in the reasoning.

It would not occur to anyone to experiment with a lousy watch that beats
faster or slower than another.

Now, further (this is Hachel speaking, let's give way to the master of
RR).
What happens if I set two identical watches (same chronotropy) on my table
and I slowly move one of them towards the moon
(let's say in three weeks to avoid a v²/c² ratio very different from 1)?

I notice in my telescope that when my watch marks
00:00'08" the lunar clock is desynchronized and marks 00:00'07".

Is this true or not?

No, it's not true
Python

If it's Python who protests, of course it's true.

The fundamental question, absolutely fundamental, absolutely dramatic,
absolutely scientific and above all absolutely relativistic, is: WHY are
watches out of sync?

There, two very clear opinions will oppose each other, that of the idiot
Python, and that of the true genius of humanity Hachel.

This will inevitably create the most magnificent sparks in the entire
history of relativity, and forty years of hatred, misunderstandings,
bullshit, whining..

I'll ask my question again, of such depth that we must warn potential
contenders for armed conflict with Hachel not to answer stupid things.

WHY are watches out of sync?

Because I love them, me, my two watches, and it hurts my heart to see them
in this sad state.

Who can answer the best RR theorist in history (me) without answering
beside the point, but totally beside the point?

Who has this formidable level (a moment of hope).

R.H.

[Paul.B.Andersen]

Post by Richard Hachel
What happens if I set two identical watches (same chronotropy) on my
table and I slowly move one of them towards the moon
(let's say in three weeks to avoid a v²/c² ratio very different from 1)?

So the two clocks on your desk are synchronous.

If we ignore the gravitational blue shift, and pretend that
the ECI frame is a true inertial frame, then the lunar clock will
lag 0.45 μs on the Earth clock.

Which we will ignore, as you said we should.

So we will consider the clocks to be synchronous (within 1 μs).

Post by Richard Hachel
I notice in my telescope that when my watch marks
00:00'08" the lunar clock is desynchronized and marks 00:00'07".

Don't be ridiculous.

In the telescope you will see the clock showing 00:00'06.72".
Unless you are a complete moron, you will understand that
the lunar clock must have advanced 1.28" since the light
you see in the telescope was emitted.
So the clock is really 00:00'06.72" + 1.28" = 00:00'08".

The clocks are still synchronous.

Which is blazingly obvious, so what is the point
with the nonsense below?

Post by Richard Hachel
The fundamental question, absolutely fundamental, absolutely dramatic,
absolutely scientific and above all absolutely relativistic, is: WHY are
watches out of sync?
There, two very clear opinions will oppose each other, that of the idiot
Python, and that of the true genius of humanity Hachel.
This will inevitably create the most magnificent sparks in the entire
history of relativity, and forty years of hatred, misunderstandings,
bullshit, whining..
I'll ask my question again, of such depth that we must warn potential
contenders for armed conflict with Hachel not to answer stupid things.
WHY are watches out of sync?

Am I to understand that the genius Doctor Richard Hachel believe
that if you look at a the lunar clock through a telescope, then
the clock will be affected and set 1.28" back and be desynchronised?
What happens when you stop looking?
Will the clock be set 1.28" forward and again be synchronised?

No. Not even you can seriously believe so.
You know that the clocks can't be affected by being looked at,
so what was your point with this?

[Richard Hachel]

Post by Paul.B.Andersen

Post by Richard Hachel
What happens if I set two identical watches (same chronotropy) on my
table and I slowly move one of them towards the moon
(let's say in three weeks to avoid a v²/c² ratio very different from 1)?

So the two clocks on your desk are synchronous.

Absolutely.

Post by Paul.B.Andersen

Post by Richard Hachel
I notice in my telescope that when my watch marks
00:00'08" the lunar clock is desynchronized and marks 00:00'07".

Don't be ridiculous.
The clocks are still synchronous.

No, they don't.
That's why I'm an exceptional being.
The greatest relativistic theorist in the entire history of humanity.
That's what makes the difference between a remarkably intelligent being
like you (I've read your pdfs on the theory of relativity, and I've rarely
found better presentations), and the degree above, that of a genius like
me.
A remarkably intelligent being will ask himself the same question, but a
supremely brilliant being will not have the same answer: Why does my watch
show 00:00'08" and the moon's 00:00'07".
It's one second slow, it's out of sync.
It's a strange oddity, isn't it?
But yet, it is MY answer, probably so great that we may have to wait 10,
30, or 50 years for another human being on earth to understand my
incredible genius and validate all the relativistic equations that I have
written (about 200).

Well yes, sir, that is what I say, they are out of sync, they no longer
mark the same time.

It is strange, huh, sir?

R.H.

[Paul.B.Andersen]

Post by Paul.B.Andersen

Post by Richard Hachel
What happens if I set two identical watches (same chronotropy) on my
table and I slowly move one of them towards the moon
(let's say in three weeks to avoid a v²/c² ratio very different from 1)?

So the two clocks on your desk are synchronous.

Absolutely >

Post by Paul.B.Andersen
If we ignore the gravitational blue shift, and pretend that
the ECI frame is a true inertial frame, then the lunar clock will
lag 0.45 μs on the Earth clock.
Which we will ignore, as you said we should.
So we will consider the clocks to be synchronous (within 1 μs).

Post by Richard Hachel
I notice in my telescope that when my watch marks
00:00'08" the lunar clock is desynchronized and marks 00:00'07".

Don't be ridiculous.
In the telescope you will see the clock showing 00:00'06.72".
Unless you are a complete moron, you will understand that
the lunar clock must have advanced 1.28" since the light
you see in the telescope was emitted.
So the clock is really 00:00'06.72" + 1.28" = 00:00'08".
The clocks are still synchronous.

No, they don't.
That's why I'm an exceptional being.
The greatest relativistic theorist in the entire history of humanity.
That's what makes the difference between a remarkably intelligent being
like you (I've read your pdfs on the theory of relativity, and I've
rarely found better presentations), and the degree above, that of a
genius like me.

You don't have to be remarkable intelligent to understand that
the proper time shown by a clock won't change by being looked at.

But you have to be remarkable stupid if you don't understand that
the proper time shown by a clock won't change by being looked at.

A remarkably intelligent being will ask himself the same question, but a
supremely brilliant being will not have the same answer: Why does my
watch show 00:00'08" and the moon's 00:00'07".
It's one second slow, it's out of sync.
It's a strange oddity, isn't it?
But yet, it is MY answer, probably so great that we may have to wait 10,
30, or 50 years for another human being on earth to understand my
incredible genius and validate all the relativistic equations that I
have written (about 200).
Well yes, sir, that is what I say, they are out of sync, they no longer
mark the same time.
It is strange, huh, sir?

Richard, you are babbling.

You do understand that you can't make the lunar clock
change its reading by looking at it, don't you?
Or don't you?

[Richard Hachel]

Post by Paul.B.Andersen
You do understand that you can't make the lunar clock
change its reading by looking at it, don't you?
Or don't you?

Of course, I can't change lunar time by looking at it.
If the watch is red, and round, and shows 00:00'07" at the
moment I look at it, well, it's a truism that the watch is red, and round,
and shows 00:00'07" at the moment I look at it, and that's what's over
there.
That's not what I'm talking about, obviously.
What I'm saying is that I, right now, have a watch that is out of sync and
shows 00:00'08"
The question is: why don't the two watches show the same time anymore?
Two possible explanations, not just one.
Römer's, Hachel's.
Both explain in their own way why the two watches are out of sync.
It goes without saying that Hachel's explanation far surpasses Römer's
and leads to the most beautiful theory of relativity ever revealed.
Römer's explanation leads to nothing at all.
The beautiful thing is to say that "photons move at c".
The genius is to say that transactions are instantaneous, and that it is
men's ignorance of the correct space-time that creates this luminic
illusion.
With Hachel, the watches are truly mutually out of sync although they work
very well, and with the same internal chronotropy.
In fact, it is not the watches, which are desynchronized, but the "spatial
places".
It is really 00:00'07" over there, at the very moment when it is 00:00'08"
here.
And vice versa.
This is universal anisochrony.

R.H.

[Maciej Wozniak]

Post by Richard Hachel
With Hachel, the watches are truly mutually out of sync although they
work very well, and with the same internal chronotropy.

Sorry, poor halfbrain, the clocks
out of sync are not workking very well.
Apart of some insane religious maniacs
worshipping a mad mumbling crazie -
nobody likes such clocks.

[Paul.B.Andersen]

Post by Richard Hachel

Post by Paul.B.Andersen
You do understand that you can't make the lunar clock
change its reading by looking at it, don't you?
Or don't you?

Of course, I can't change lunar time by looking at it.

You have to be remarkable stupid if you don't understand that
the proper time shown by a clock won't change by being looked at.

--------------------

Post by Richard Hachel
The genius is to say that transactions are instantaneous, and that it is
men's ignorance of the correct space-time that creates this luminic
illusion.

OK. Let's start again:

Hachel wrote:
| I set two identical watches (same chronotropy) on my table and
| I slowly move one of them towards the moon (let's say in
| three weeks to avoid a v²/c² ratio very different from 1)

If we ignore the gravitational blue shift, and pretend that
the ECI frame is a true inertial frame, then the lunar clock will
lag 0.45 μs on the Earth clock.
Which we will ignore, as you said we should.
So the clocks are synchronous (within 1 μs).

Hachel wrote:
|I notice in my telescope that when my watch marks
|00:00'08" the lunar clock is desynchronized and marks 00:00'07".

Considering that transactions are instantaneous,
why do you say that the picture you see in the telescope
is 00:00'07, when it obviously should be 00:00'08" (-0.45 μs)?

Please explain.

[Maciej Wozniak]

Post by Paul.B.Andersen

Post by Richard Hachel

Post by Paul.B.Andersen
You do understand that you can't make the lunar clock
change its reading by looking at it, don't you?
Or don't you?

Of course, I can't change lunar time by looking at it.

You have to be remarkable stupid if you don't understand that
the proper time shown by a clock won't change by being looked at.

Sure, sure, particularly when it is only
shown in some gedanken delusions of
some lunatic idiots.

[gharnagel]

Post by Maciej Wozniak

Post by Paul.B.Andersen

Post by Richard Hachel

Post by Paul.B.Andersen
You do understand that you can't make the lunar clock
change its reading by looking at it, don't you?
Or don't you?

Of course, I can't change lunar time by looking at it.

You have to be remarkable stupid if you don't understand that
the proper time shown by a clock won't change by being looked at.

Sure, sure, particularly when it is only
shown in some gedanken delusions of
some lunatic idiots.

Exactly, when Wozniak shows his gedanken delusion about 99766
and 86400, which is soundly refuted by all experimental evidence.

[Maciej Wozniak]

Post by gharnagel

Post by Maciej Wozniak

Post by Paul.B.Andersen

Post by Richard Hachel

Post by Paul.B.Andersen
You do understand that you can't make the lunar clock
change its reading by looking at it, don't you?
Or don't you?

Of course, I can't change lunar time by looking at it.

You have to be remarkable stupid if you don't understand that
the proper time shown by a clock won't change by being looked at.

Sure, sure, particularly when it is only
shown in some gedanken delusions of
some lunatic idiots.

Exactly, when Wozniak shows his gedanken delusion about 99766
and 86400, which is soundly refuted by all experimental evidence.

The physics of your idiot guru is not mine,
it's his.
Still, of course; as it gave inconsistent,
denying each other predictions - the
experimantal "evidence" simply had to
refute at least one of them.

I still wonder if you're going to be
impudent enough to claim directly:
"it had no definition of second". Are
you, trash?

[Richard Hachel]

Post by Paul.B.Andersen
|I notice in my telescope that when my watch marks
|00:00'08" the lunar clock is desynchronized and marks 00:00'07".
Considering that transactions are instantaneous,
why do you say that the picture you see in the telescope
is 00:00'07, when it obviously should be 00:00'08" ?
Please explain.

It's not up to me to explain, but up to you to understand what's going on.
First, let's not talk about gravitational shift towards blue, red, etc.,
these are notions of general relativity, and it's already complicated
enough to have a serious dialogue with just a very simple notion of SR.
So you have to explain this strange fact.
I admit that the moon is exactly 3.10^8m away (a little closer than in
reality for a simple measurement).
I set the two watches in absolutely identical ways, and I sent one to the
moon, after a three-week trip in order to have a speed that is not very
important compared to c and therefore (1-v²/c² ~1).
Something is going to get strange.
The watches are going to get out of sync. I notice that they always beat
at the same time and that the chronotropy is not altered,
but yet, when my watch shows 00:00'08" the lunar clock shows, at the same
time, 00:00'07".
This is frankly abnormal, and we are in the same hypothesis as Römer,
observing the moons of Jupiter, and noticing abnormal things.
What is needed is to explain things, and for that, it takes a genius
greater than that of Römer who gave an explanation that, later, will
probably make people laugh when we really understand the theory of
relativity.
The question remains: What is happening with my two watches? Why do they
no longer show the same time?

R.H.

[Python]

Post by Paul.B.Andersen
|I notice in my telescope that when my watch marks
|00:00'08" the lunar clock is desynchronized and marks 00:00'07".
Considering that transactions are instantaneous,
why do you say that the picture you see in the telescope
is 00:00'07, when it obviously should be 00:00'08" ?
Please explain.

[snip off-topic bragging on GR.]
So you have to explain this strange fact.
I admit that the moon is exactly 3.10^8m away (a little closer than in
reality for a simple measurement).
I set the two watches in absolutely identical ways, and I sent one to
the moon, after a three-week trip in order to have a speed that is not
very important compared to c and therefore (1-v²/c² ~1).
Something is going to get strange.
The watches are going to get out of sync. I notice that they always beat
at the same time and that the chronotropy is not altered,
but yet, when my watch shows 00:00'08" the lunar clock shows, at the
same time, 00:00'07".

Nope.

This is frankly abnormal, and we are in the same hypothesis as Römer,
observing the moons of Jupiter, and noticing abnormal things.
What is needed is to explain things, and for that, it takes a genius
greater than that of Römer who gave an explanation that, later, will
probably make people laugh when we really understand the theory of
relativity.
The question remains: What is happening with my two watches? Why do they
no longer show the same time?

Nothing. In this very scenario they are still showing the same time.

[Richard Hachel]

Post by Python
Nothing. In this very scenario they are still showing the same time.

Pourquoi une réponse aussi stupide et sans réflexion?

Les deux montres n'affichent pas la même heure, puisqu'au même instant,
ma montre marque 00:00'08",
et que la montre lunaire marque 00:00'07".

Comment tu expliques ça?

R.H.

[Paul.B.Andersen]

Post by Richard Hachel

Post by Paul.B.Andersen
|I notice in my telescope that when my watch marks
|00:00'08" the lunar clock is desynchronized and marks 00:00'07".
Considering that transactions are instantaneous,
why do you say that the picture you see in the telescope
is 00:00'07, when it obviously should be 00:00'08" ?
Please explain.

It's not up to me to explain, but up to you to understand what's going on.

And how can I understand what's going on when the only person in
the universe who knows will not explain what's going on?

It is up to you to explain the abnormal things you claim.

Post by Richard Hachel
First, let's not talk about gravitational shift towards blue, red, etc.,
these are notions of general relativity, and it's already complicated
enough to have a serious dialogue with just a very simple notion of SR.
So you have to explain this strange fact.
I admit that the moon is exactly 3.10^8m away (a little closer than in
reality for a simple measurement).
I set the two watches in absolutely identical ways, and I sent one to
the moon, after a three-week trip in order to have a speed that is not
very important compared to c and therefore (1-v²/c² ~1).

Why do your repeat this?

We agree that the clock at your table and the lunar clock
still are synchronous after the latter clock has been
moved very slowly to the Moon.

Post by Richard Hachel
Something is going to get strange.
The watches are going to get out of sync. I notice that they always beat
at the same time and that the chronotropy is not altered,
but yet, when my watch shows 00:00'08" the lunar clock shows, at the
same time, 00:00'07".

This is the very point.
Why do you guess that if you look at the lunar clock with
a telescope (something you haven't done) then you would see
that it lagged 1 second on the clock at your table?

Remember, only you know what's going on, so you better explain.

Post by Richard Hachel
This is frankly abnormal, and we are in the same hypothesis as Römer,
observing the moons of Jupiter, and noticing abnormal things.

Why do you say that Römer noticed abnormal things?

Römer noticed that the visually observed time Io was eclipsed by
Jupiter varied with the time of the year. And since the orbital time
of Io was supposed to be constant, this variation could only
be explained by that the speed of light is finite.
When the distance to Jupiter was increasing, the distance to Jupiter
was shorter when the eclipse started, than it was when it ended,
and the eclipse would be seen to last a bit longer than average.
When the distance to Jupiter was decreasing, the opposite would happen.
This made it possible for Römer to estimate the speed of light.

That the speed of light is finite is hardly "abnormal things".

Post by Richard Hachel
What is needed is to explain things, and for that, it takes a genius
greater than that of Römer who gave an explanation that, later, will
probably make people laugh when we really understand the theory of
relativity.

Yes, that is my very point.
You are the genius claiming abnormal things, and it is the genius'
responsibility to _explain_ these abnormal things.

So please explain!

Post by Richard Hachel
The question remains: What is happening with my two watches? Why do they
no longer show the same time?

Why indeed.

Römer's conclusion "the speed of light is finite" was based
on measurements.
You have never observed the lunar clock in a telescope.

So the first point you have to clear up, is:

Why do you _guess_ that if you look at the lunar clock with
a telescope, then you would see that it lagged 1 second on
the clock at your table?

When you have explained this, we can take it from there.

[Richard Hachel]

Post by Paul.B.Andersen

Post by Richard Hachel
Something is going to get strange.
The watches are going to get out of sync. I notice that they always beat
at the same time and that the chronotropy is not altered,
but yet, when my watch shows 00:00'08" the lunar clock shows, at the
same time, 00:00'07".

This is the very point.
Why do you guess that if you look at the lunar clock with

Yes, is a perfect very point.

It's very interesting no?

My watch shows 00:00'08", the lunar watch shows in the same time 00:00'07"

When I told my wife that! Oh my god, she was surprised, surprised,
surprised!!!

R.H.







R.H.

[Python]

Post by Richard Hachel

Post by Paul.B.Andersen

Post by Richard Hachel
Something is going to get strange.
The watches are going to get out of sync. I notice that they always
beat at the same time and that the chronotropy is not altered,
but yet, when my watch shows 00:00'08" the lunar clock shows, at the
same time, 00:00'07".

This is the very point.
Why do you guess that if you look at the lunar clock with

Yes, is a perfect very point.
It's very interesting no?
My watch shows 00:00'08", the lunar watch shows in the same time 00:00'07"
When I told my wife that! Oh my god, she was surprised, surprised,
surprised!!!

Well if she's been stupid enough to marry crook, this would make perfect
sense.

Fortunately this is an imaginary wife. No woman on Earth is that stupid.

[Richard Hachel]

Post by Paul.B.Andersen

Post by Richard Hachel
The question remains: What is happening with my two watches? Why do they
no longer show the same time?

Why indeed.
Römer's conclusion "the speed of light is finite" was based
on measurements.
You have never observed the lunar clock in a telescope.
Why do you _guess_ that if you look at the lunar clock with
a telescope, then you would see that it lagged 1 second on
the clock at your table?
When you have explained this, we can take it from there.

Ah, but here is my explanation! Thank you sir!
There is a one-second time difference between 00:00:08 and 00:00:07",
between my watch and the watch on the moon.
This is because of the speed of light, which is quite slow, and takes at
least a second to reach me.
And so that explains everything.
It's magnificent, I understand better.
Here it is, my explanation.
I am infinitely grateful to you... So that was it!

R.H.

[Paul.B.Andersen]

Post by Richard Hachel

Post by Paul.B.Andersen

Post by Richard Hachel
I notice in my telescope that when my watch marks
00:00'08" the lunar clock is desynchronized and marks 00:00'07".

Why do you _guess_ that if you look at the lunar clock with
a telescope, then you would see that it lagged 1 second on
the clock at your table?
When you have explained this, we can take it from there.

Ah, but here is my explanation! Thank you sir!
There is a one-second time difference between 00:00:08 and 00:00:07",
between my watch and the watch on the moon.
This is because of the speed of light, which is quite slow, and takes at
least a second to reach me.

Thanks for a clear explanation.

You don't _guess_ that if you look at the lunar clock with
a telescope, then you would see that it lagged 1 second on
the clock at your table.

You _know_ that since the speed of light is c, then the image of
the lunar clock you see in the telescope is delayed by 1 second.

That means that when the clock you see in the telescope is showing
00:00:07, you _know_ that the lunar clock is showing 1 second more,
namely 00:00:08, which is the same as the clock on your table.

So you know that the clocks are still synchronous.

Post by Richard Hachel
And so that explains everything.
It's magnificent, I understand better.
Here it is, my explanation.
I am infinitely grateful to you... So that was it!

Quite.
Thanks for the explanation.

But why did you say that you could change the reading
of the lunar clock by looking at it, when you know you can't?

[Thomas Heger]

Post by Paul.B.Andersen

Post by Richard Hachel
What happens if I set two identical watches (same chronotropy) on my
table and I slowly move one of them towards the moon
(let's say in three weeks to avoid a v²/c² ratio very different from 1)?

So the two clocks on your desk are synchronous.
If we ignore the gravitational blue shift, and pretend that
the ECI frame is a true inertial frame, then the lunar clock will
lag 0.45 μs on the Earth clock.
Which we will ignore, as you said we should.
So we will consider the clocks to be synchronous (within 1 μs).

Post by Richard Hachel
I notice in my telescope that when my watch marks
00:00'08" the lunar clock is desynchronized and marks 00:00'07".

Don't be ridiculous.
In the telescope you will see the clock showing 00:00'06.72".
Unless you are a complete moron, you will understand that
the lunar clock must have advanced 1.28" since the light
you see in the telescope was emitted.
So the clock is really 00:00'06.72" + 1.28" = 00:00'08".
The clocks are still synchronous.
Which is blazingly obvious, so what is the point
with the nonsense below?

Totally correct.

But why didn't Einstein do this nor even mentioned it in his 1905 paper?

...

TH