does the universe exist beyond our horizon??

[kazu]

essentially what i am asking is, is there something outside? or
can there even be outside??

is the universe like an egg and we are the yoke??

[rhertz]

Infinite and eternal.

[Mikko]

Post by rhertz
Infinite and eternal.

The unverse looks like it is not infinitely old. Of course it is hard
to tell anything about the time before the universe became transparent
but the assumption of a finite age fits better to observations.

[The Starmaker]

Post by kazu
essentially what i am asking is, is there something outside? or
can there even be outside??
is the universe like an egg and we are the yoke??

What would your answer be if a fish in the ocean would ask you the same
question?

[kazu]

Post by The Starmaker

Post by kazu
essentially what i am asking is, is there something outside? or
can there even be outside??
is the universe like an egg and we are the yoke??

What would your answer be if a fish in the ocean would ask you the same
question?

i would say, watch out for the shark!! fish just eat and eat each
other. i eat fish as well. i like fish.

[The Starmaker]

Post by kazu

Post by The Starmaker

Post by kazu
essentially what i am asking is, is there something outside? or
can there even be outside??
is the universe like an egg and we are the yoke??

What would your answer be if a fish in the ocean would ask you the same
question?

i would say, watch out for the shark!! fish just eat and eat each
other. i eat fish as well. i like fish.

Oh, you are the shark outside the fish ocean universe..

inside the ocean you are fish food.

[Chris M. Thomasson]

Post by The Starmaker

Post by kazu
essentially what i am asking is, is there something outside? or
can there even be outside??
is the universe like an egg and we are the yoke??

What would your answer be if a fish in the ocean would ask you the same
question?

A fish tank is a submarine for fish? lol. I heard that on some movie.

[The Starmaker]

Post by Chris M. Thomasson

Post by The Starmaker

Post by kazu
essentially what i am asking is, is there something outside? or
can there even be outside??
is the universe like an egg and we are the yoke??

What would your answer be if a fish in the ocean would ask you the same
question?

A fish tank is a submarine for fish? lol. I heard that on some movie.

i see where your mandlebot designs come from now...

ypu live in a Yellow Submarine..

you're a ...hippie!


don't boart dat joint..
pass it over to me.


dats heavy man

got any more freaked out designs?

wait, let me get my flouresant lamp..

far out man

Wow, 2 ss's in Thomasson, dat is soooo freaked out!!!! men in trees?
monkies in cities?? fishes in submarines!!


i walk into a pet shop
"I need a submarine."

"What color?"

[Mikko]

essentially what i am asking is, is there something outside? or can
there even be outside??

The observable unverse looks like a small part of a larger, possibly
infinite, universe.

is the universe like an egg and we are the yoke??

As far as can be seen every part of the universe is similar to every
other part. I small scale there are clusters and superclusters of
galaxies but they seem to be evenly scattered. No shell, ho yoke-

[Thomas Heger]

Post by Mikko

essentially what i am asking is, is there something outside? or can
there even be outside??

The observable unverse looks like a small part of a larger, possibly
infinite, universe.

is the universe like an egg and we are the yoke??

As far as can be seen every part of the universe is similar to every
other part. I small scale there are clusters and superclusters of
galaxies but they seem to be evenly scattered. No shell, ho yoke-

The universe 'folds into itself'.

There is no 'outside' and no edge.



You must think about the axis of time, which is not always parallel to
ours in other places.

This 'axis of time' is imaginary in any given context and can have an
orientation into a spatial direction in respect to some other location's
time.

Actually time can run 'backwards' (from our perspective), what would
make the hypersheet of the present for such a 'backwards running axis of
time' look like seen through a mirror.

This 'other world with backwards running time' is invisible to us
(usually), but real and relatively close.

This 'other world' has a future, too, but within our past.

This would generate an overall 'infolding universe', which has no outside.

The reason is, that it has no edge, since flying to an alleged 'edge of
the universe' would bring us only to some other region, which has also
an axis of time and also a hypersheet of the present, which is also
perpendicular the local time.

The pattern is kind of similar to a 'moebius strip'.

You can walk along that as long as you like, but you would not
encounter an end.


TH

[Mikko]

Post by Thomas Heger

Post by Mikko

essentially what i am asking is, is there something outside? or can
there even be outside??

The observable unverse looks like a small part of a larger, possibly
infinite, universe.

is the universe like an egg and we are the yoke??

As far as can be seen every part of the universe is similar to every
other part. I small scale there are clusters and superclusters of
galaxies but they seem to be evenly scattered. No shell, ho yoke-

The universe 'folds into itself'.

That is not observed.

Post by Thomas Heger
There is no 'outside' and no edge.

No 'outside' or edge has been observed but nither has been
observed their non-existence.

Post by Thomas Heger
You must think about the axis of time, which is not always parallel to
ours in other places.

That is obvious, even in the same place.

Post by Thomas Heger
This 'axis of time' is imaginary in any given context and can have an
orientation into a spatial direction in respect to some other
location's time.

I think you are trying to say something obviously true.

Post by Thomas Heger
Actually time can run 'backwards' (from our perspective), what would
make the hypersheet of the present for such a 'backwards running axis
of time' look like seen through a mirror.

Nothing like that has ever been observed.

[Thomas Heger]

Post by Mikko

Post by Thomas Heger

Post by Mikko

essentially what i am asking is, is there something outside? or can
there even be outside??

The observable unverse looks like a small part of a larger, possibly
infinite, universe.

is the universe like an egg and we are the yoke??

As far as can be seen every part of the universe is similar to every
other part. I small scale there are clusters and superclusters of
galaxies but they seem to be evenly scattered. No shell, ho yoke-

The universe 'folds into itself'.

That is not observed.

Sure, you cannot observe this.

But many real things are very hard to see.

E.g. radio-waves are real, but more or less invisible.

Also invisible is the other side of the globe, even if we know, that the
'antipodes' do exist.

The content of a black hole is invisible, too, but should exist somehow.

IoW: invisble things can be real, even if we cannot observe them.

Therefore: observability is no requirement for realness.

Post by Mikko

Post by Thomas Heger
There is no 'outside' and no edge.

No 'outside' or edge has been observed but nither has been
observed their non-existence.

The problem with the 'edge' is not its invisibility, but somehow it
would contradict certain philosophical principles, if we assume a
border, which has no outside, because an outside of the universe does
not exist.

The 'real thing' is actually 'to geometrisise time' and to assume an
antisymmetric behaviour of spacetime.

This kind of symmetry is unusual in our world, but not very difficult to
understand.

You should simply imagine a so called 'Moebius strip', which has only
one side.

Now this side points always into the future.

Only: 'future' is here meant as goemetric property and only locally defined.

Since the moebius strip has only one side, everywhere exist one future,
event if the future half way round that strip would point into the
opposite direction than ours.



TH
...

[The Starmaker]

Post by kazu
essentially what i am asking is, is there something outside? or
can there even be outside??
is the universe like an egg and we are the yoke??

The earth is like an egg. But you first have to boil the egg for
3 minutes..then remove the earth crust, and cut the egg in half and you
will see the earth's core.

[The Starmaker]

Post by The Starmaker

Post by kazu
essentially what i am asking is, is there something outside? or
can there even be outside??
is the universe like an egg and we are the yoke??

The earth is like an egg. But you first have to boil the egg for
3 minutes..then remove the earth crust, and cut the egg in half and you
will see the earth's core.

Now I'm going to explain

"is there something outside".

You got the ocean water universe

with all the fishes...

pass the ocean water universe..

you have You at the bottom of

the ocean...an ocean of air..

that is around the earth and

you at the bottom of that

air ocean walking on it's surface.


In other words, you live in

an ocean of air at the bottom

of the ocean...the air ocean.

Now, you go pass the air ocean..

up, up, an up and you reach

the no air ocean some call it space.

A WHOLE ocean of no air or water.

Now, to go

outside

of the no air ocean

you have to pass

what they call the dark matter...

and you pass that ...dark, and

you have reached

"is there something outside".

can there even be outside??

It's outside the water
outside the air
outside the space

You are in the inside
looking out from the
bottom of the ocean.

[The Starmaker]

Post by The Starmaker

Post by The Starmaker

Post by kazu
essentially what i am asking is, is there something outside? or
can there even be outside??
is the universe like an egg and we are the yoke??

The earth is like an egg. But you first have to boil the egg for
3 minutes..then remove the earth crust, and cut the egg in half and you
will see the earth's core.

Now I'm going to explain
"is there something outside".
You got the ocean water universe
with all the fishes...
pass the ocean water universe..
you have You at the bottom of
the ocean...an ocean of air..
that is around the earth and
you at the bottom of that
air ocean walking on it's surface.
In other words, you live in
an ocean of air at the bottom
of the ocean...the air ocean.
Now, you go pass the air ocean..
up, up, an up and you reach
the no air ocean some call it space.
A WHOLE ocean of no air or water.
Now, to go
outside
of the no air ocean
you have to pass
what they call the dark matter...
and you pass that ...dark, and
you have reached
"is there something outside".
can there even be outside??
It's outside the water
outside the air
outside the space

Now, once you have passed

outside the water
outside the air
outside the space

you want to know
What is there?

you want to know
"is there something outside"

Of course there is!

I can tell you
exactly what it looks like..

outside the water
outside the air
outside the space
beyond the dark..

is a ...dream.

Have you ever closed
your eye at night and
all of a sudden
in a split second

you see light
bright daylight
images
maybe
a running stream
leaves
waterfalls
and you open
your eyes and
it's dark again?

Close your eyes again
you see light
bright daylight
images
maybe
a running stream
leaves
waterfalls...

beyond that ocean
of no air
beyond the darkness is...Light.

Is space having a dream?

[The Starmaker]

Post by The Starmaker

Post by The Starmaker

Post by The Starmaker

Post by kazu
essentially what i am asking is, is there something outside? or
can there even be outside??
is the universe like an egg and we are the yoke??

The earth is like an egg. But you first have to boil the egg for
3 minutes..then remove the earth crust, and cut the egg in half and you
will see the earth's core.

Now I'm going to explain
"is there something outside".
You got the ocean water universe
with all the fishes...
pass the ocean water universe..
you have You at the bottom of
the ocean...an ocean of air..
that is around the earth and
you at the bottom of that
air ocean walking on it's surface.
In other words, you live in
an ocean of air at the bottom
of the ocean...the air ocean.
Now, you go pass the air ocean..
up, up, an up and you reach
the no air ocean some call it space.
A WHOLE ocean of no air or water.
Now, to go
outside
of the no air ocean
you have to pass
what they call the dark matter...
and you pass that ...dark, and
you have reached
"is there something outside".
can there even be outside??
It's outside the water
outside the air
outside the space

Now, once you have passed
outside the water
outside the air
outside the space
you want to know
What is there?
you want to know
"is there something outside"
Of course there is!
I can tell you
exactly what it looks like..
outside the water
outside the air
outside the space
beyond the dark..
is a ...dream.
Have you ever closed
your eye at night and
all of a sudden
in a split second
you see light
bright daylight
images
maybe
a running stream
leaves
waterfalls
and you open
your eyes and
it's dark again?
Close your eyes again
you see light
bright daylight
images
maybe
a running stream
leaves
waterfalls...
beyond that ocean
of no air
beyond the darkness is...Light.

Now, before the big bang..
there was what you may call
a quantumn event...

light popped in.

[The Starmaker]

Post by The Starmaker

Post by The Starmaker

Post by The Starmaker

Post by The Starmaker

Post by kazu
essentially what i am asking is, is there something outside? or
can there even be outside??
is the universe like an egg and we are the yoke??

The earth is like an egg. But you first have to boil the egg for
3 minutes..then remove the earth crust, and cut the egg in half and you
will see the earth's core.

Now I'm going to explain
"is there something outside".
You got the ocean water universe
with all the fishes...
pass the ocean water universe..
you have You at the bottom of
the ocean...an ocean of air..
that is around the earth and
you at the bottom of that
air ocean walking on it's surface.
In other words, you live in
an ocean of air at the bottom
of the ocean...the air ocean.
Now, you go pass the air ocean..
up, up, an up and you reach
the no air ocean some call it space.
A WHOLE ocean of no air or water.
Now, to go
outside
of the no air ocean
you have to pass
what they call the dark matter...
and you pass that ...dark, and
you have reached
"is there something outside".
can there even be outside??
It's outside the water
outside the air
outside the space

Now, once you have passed
outside the water
outside the air
outside the space
you want to know
What is there?
you want to know
"is there something outside"
Of course there is!
I can tell you
exactly what it looks like..
outside the water
outside the air
outside the space
beyond the dark..
is a ...dream.
Have you ever closed
your eye at night and
all of a sudden
in a split second
you see light
bright daylight
images
maybe
a running stream
leaves
waterfalls
and you open
your eyes and
it's dark again?
Close your eyes again
you see light
bright daylight
images
maybe
a running stream
leaves
waterfalls...
beyond that ocean
of no air
beyond the darkness is...Light.

Now, before the big bang..
there was what you may call
a quantumn event...
light popped in.

I can draw you a picture of exactly how it looked BEFORE the big bang...the very first moment trillions of years before the big bang<-


.





Now, the very next moment:




. .



Now, the very next moment:




. .


.





Now, the very next moment:






. .



. .



Now, the very next moments:



. . . .



. . . .



. . . .



. . . .



. . . .



. . . .



. . . .



. . . .



. . . .



. . . .



. .



. . . .



. .



Now, around trillions years later, a few seconds after the big bang



'
* .
* '
* *







* *
*
*
*
*
*





There is the proof of before and after the big bang.

first order, than chaos...

[Sylvia Else]

Post by The Starmaker

Post by kazu
essentially what i am asking is, is there something outside? or
can there even be outside??
is the universe like an egg and we are the yoke??

The earth is like an egg. But you first have to boil the egg for
3 minutes..then remove the earth crust, and cut the egg in half and you
will see the earth's core.

The current thinking is that the universe is infinite in spatial extent,
but only 13.7 billion years old. In consequence of its finite age, we
can only see a finite amount of it.

So whether it's really infinite in extent is not something we actually
know, and can probably never know. We also don't know whether the
physical laws are really the same everywhere. There could be variations
that are too small to be detectable in the amount of the universe that
we can see.

In some ways, having physical laws that vary over the universe is
philosophically attractive, because it could be an answer to why the
laws we see seem so finely tuned to support our existence.

Sylvia.

[Bertietaylor]

Post by Sylvia Else

Post by The Starmaker

Post by kazu
essentially what i am asking is, is there something outside? or
can there even be outside??
is the universe like an egg and we are the yoke??

The earth is like an egg. But you first have to boil the egg for
3 minutes..then remove the earth crust, and cut the egg in half and you
will see the earth's core.

The current thinking is that the universe is infinite in spatial extent,
but only 13.7 billion years old. In consequence of its finite age, we
can only see a finite amount of it.

An infinite universe must be eternal.
You need infinite time for an infinite universe to be formed.
So the universe is an infinity in a time continuum.

Post by Sylvia Else
So whether it's really infinite in extent is not something we actually
know, and can probably never know. We also don't know whether the
physical laws are really the same everywhere. There could be variations
that are too small to be detectable in the amount of the universe that
we can see.
In some ways, having physical laws that vary over the universe is
philosophically attractive, because it could be an answer to why the
laws we see seem so finely tuned to support our existence.
Sylvia.

[kazu]

Post by Sylvia Else

Post by The Starmaker

Post by kazu
essentially what i am asking is, is there something outside? or
can there even be outside??
is the universe like an egg and we are the yoke??

The earth is like an egg. But you first have to boil the egg for
3 minutes..then remove the earth crust, and cut the egg in half and you
will see the earth's core.

The current thinking is that the universe is infinite in spatial
extent, but only 13.7 billion years old. In consequence of its
finite age, we can only see a finite amount of it.
So whether it's really infinite in extent is not something we
actually know, and can probably never know. We also don't know
whether the physical laws are really the same everywhere. There
could be variations that are too small to be detectable in the
amount of the universe that we can see.
In some ways, having physical laws that vary over the universe is
philosophically attractive, because it could be an answer to why
the laws we see seem so finely tuned to support our existence.
Sylvia.

maybe the fine tuning observation may go the way of aether with a
better theory? i cannot believe this universe is special or
privileged or even we as a species.

[J. J. Lodder]

Post by kazu
essentially what i am asking is, is there something outside? or
can there even be outside??
is the universe like an egg and we are the yoke??

No point in speculating about things that cannot be observed,
not even in principle,

Jan

[kazu]

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by kazu
essentially what i am asking is, is there something outside? or
can there even be outside??
is the universe like an egg and we are the yoke??

No point in speculating about things that cannot be observed,
not even in principle,
Jan

how would you know that it cannot be observed? if there is
something substantial beyond the edge and it makes the edge
appear a few deviations away from expected???

[x]

essentially what i am asking is, is there something outside? or can
there even be outside??
is the universe like an egg and we are the yoke??

Do minds undergo a health or disease process similar to
the bodies of plants and animals?

Or is a healthy idea different from a true idea and
a diseased idea is different from a false idea?

This is your brain. This is your brain on physics.

Brain sizzles in frying pan.

Yes - one thing is certain. Modern physics is a
mental disease.

[Jim Pennino]

Post by x

essentially what i am asking is, is there something outside? or can
there even be outside??
is the universe like an egg and we are the yoke??

Do minds undergo a health or disease process similar to
the bodies of plants and animals?
Or is a healthy idea different from a true idea and
a diseased idea is different from a false idea?
This is your brain. This is your brain on physics.
Brain sizzles in frying pan.
Yes - one thing is certain. Modern physics is a
mental disease.

Yep, according to crackpots...

[kazu]

Post by x

Post by kazu
essentially what i am asking is, is there something outside? or
can there even be outside??
is the universe like an egg and we are the yoke??

Do minds undergo a health or disease process similar to
the bodies of plants and animals?

yeah its called neuro-degeneration, like alzehimers and parkinsons.

Post by x
Or is a healthy idea different from a true idea and
a diseased idea is different from a false idea?

healthy idea = making falsifiable predictions.

diseased idea = not falsifiable as it predicts everything and
nothing.

Post by x
This is your brain.  This is your brain on physics.
Brain sizzles in frying pan.
Yes - one thing is certain.  Modern physics is a
mental disease.

as opposed what not being a mental disease?

[Bertietaylor]

Post by kazu

Post by x

Post by kazu
essentially what i am asking is, is there something outside? or
can there even be outside??
is the universe like an egg and we are the yoke??

Do minds undergo a health or disease process similar to
the bodies of plants and animals?

yeah its called neuro-degeneration, like alzehimers and parkinsons.

Post by x
Or is a healthy idea different from a true idea and
a diseased idea is different from a false idea?

healthy idea = making falsifiable predictions.
diseased idea = not falsifiable as it predicts everything and
nothing.

Post by x
This is your brain.  This is your brain on physics.
Brain sizzles in frying pan.
Yes - one thing is certain.  Modern physics is a
mental disease.

as opposed what not being a mental disease?

Having enough sense left for cure by Arindam's physics.

Woof-woof
Bertietaylor

[Chris M. Thomasson]

essentially what i am asking is, is there something outside? or can
there even be outside??
is the universe like an egg and we are the yoke??

Sometimes I think that we are contained in a black hole that resides in
our "parent" universe. Our "border" would be the event horizon.