carl ito
2021-05-27 20:11:23 UTC
Ben: Tenors (field vectors) are associated with an entity that constitutes matter yet in vacuum there is not matter so tenor theory (guess) is speculative.
PeterDonis: Not necessarily. Spacetime itself is described by tensors (metric tensor, Riemann tensor, etc.) even in the absence of matter.
Ben: "Maxwell's electrodynamics proceeds in the same unusual way already analyzed in studying his electrostatics. Under the influence of hypotheses which remain vague and undefined in his mind, Maxwell sketches a theory which he never completes, he does not even bother to remove contradictions from it; then he starts changing this theory, he imposes on it essential modifications which he does not notify to his reader; the latter tries in vain to fix the fugitive and intangible thought of the author; just when he thinks he has got it, even the parts of the doctrine dealing with the best studied phenomena are seen to vanish. And yet this strange and disconcerting method led Maxwell to the electromagnetic theory of light!" (Duhem, 1902).
PeterDonis: A reference from 119 years ago, particularly from a philosopher and not a scientist, more particularly one that makes incorrect claims (Maxwell electrodynamics is perfectly consistent), and even more particularly when the issue it is talking about has nothing whatever to do with tensors, is not a good basis for discussion.
Ben: Einstein's energy equation E = mc^2 is used to structurally unify Maxwell's electromagnetic field with matter but Einstein's inertial mass (m = E/c^2) is massless since E represents the energy of an electromagnetic photon (Einstein, § 15). Einstein, Albert. Relativity: Special and General Theory. Brauschweig. 1917. Relativity: The Special and General Theory - Wikisource, the free online library
PeterDonis: You have insufficient privileges to reply here. (Ban) Physics forum======https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/is-mass-the-source-of-spacetime.1003264/page-3---
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"XV. General Results of the Theory
IT is clear from our previous considerations that the (special) theory of relativity has grown out of electrodynamics and optics. In these fields it has not appreciably altered the predictions of theory, but it has considerably simplified the theoretical structure, i.e. the derivation of laws, and—what is incomparably more important—it has considerably reduced the number of independent hypotheses forming the basis of theory. The special theory of relativity has rendered the Maxwell-Lorentz theory so plausible, that the latter would have been generally accepted by physicists even if experiment had decided less unequivocally in its favor." (Einstein, § 15).
"Hence we can say: If a body takes up an amount of energy E, then its inertial mass increases by an amount E/c^2." (Einstein, § 15).
End
PeterDonis: Not necessarily. Spacetime itself is described by tensors (metric tensor, Riemann tensor, etc.) even in the absence of matter.
Ben: "Maxwell's electrodynamics proceeds in the same unusual way already analyzed in studying his electrostatics. Under the influence of hypotheses which remain vague and undefined in his mind, Maxwell sketches a theory which he never completes, he does not even bother to remove contradictions from it; then he starts changing this theory, he imposes on it essential modifications which he does not notify to his reader; the latter tries in vain to fix the fugitive and intangible thought of the author; just when he thinks he has got it, even the parts of the doctrine dealing with the best studied phenomena are seen to vanish. And yet this strange and disconcerting method led Maxwell to the electromagnetic theory of light!" (Duhem, 1902).
PeterDonis: A reference from 119 years ago, particularly from a philosopher and not a scientist, more particularly one that makes incorrect claims (Maxwell electrodynamics is perfectly consistent), and even more particularly when the issue it is talking about has nothing whatever to do with tensors, is not a good basis for discussion.
Ben: Einstein's energy equation E = mc^2 is used to structurally unify Maxwell's electromagnetic field with matter but Einstein's inertial mass (m = E/c^2) is massless since E represents the energy of an electromagnetic photon (Einstein, § 15). Einstein, Albert. Relativity: Special and General Theory. Brauschweig. 1917. Relativity: The Special and General Theory - Wikisource, the free online library
PeterDonis: You have insufficient privileges to reply here. (Ban) Physics forum======https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/is-mass-the-source-of-spacetime.1003264/page-3---
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
New Forum
"XV. General Results of the Theory
IT is clear from our previous considerations that the (special) theory of relativity has grown out of electrodynamics and optics. In these fields it has not appreciably altered the predictions of theory, but it has considerably simplified the theoretical structure, i.e. the derivation of laws, and—what is incomparably more important—it has considerably reduced the number of independent hypotheses forming the basis of theory. The special theory of relativity has rendered the Maxwell-Lorentz theory so plausible, that the latter would have been generally accepted by physicists even if experiment had decided less unequivocally in its favor." (Einstein, § 15).
"Hence we can say: If a body takes up an amount of energy E, then its inertial mass increases by an amount E/c^2." (Einstein, § 15).
End