Discussion:
Idiocy Called Twin Paradox
(too old to reply)
Pentcho Valev
2016-04-10 18:59:07 UTC
Permalink
http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~djmorin/chap11.pdf
Introduction to Classical Mechanics With Problems and Solutions, David Morin, Cambridge University Press, Chapter 11, p. 14: "Twin A stays on the earth, while twin B flies quickly to a distant star and back. (...) For the entire outward and return parts of the trip, B does observe A's clock running slow, but enough strangeness occurs during the turning-around period to make A end up older. Note, however, that a discussion of acceleration is not required to quantitatively understand the paradox..."

This is idiotic isn't it? The traveling twin turns around, and this act of his miraculously makes the distant stationary twin on the Earth older. The video below elaborates on the idiocy. During the very brief moment when the traveling twin turns around, he experiences acceleration or "gravitational field" (the turn-around and the acceleration are absent in some twin-paradox scenarios - there is no "gravitational field"). Einsteinians explain that the traveling twin "will BELIEVE that this gravitational field exists throughout all of space, and that this gravitational field is causing the Earth and the rest of the universe to accelerate towards him". And then a second belief: "Therefore, Adam will BELIEVE that the gravitational field is causing time on Earth to flow much faster than time on his ship". In short, the solution of the twin paradox is based on the beliefs of the traveling twin during the turning-around period, beliefs which are obviously false but are nevertheless ascribed to the traveling twin by Einsteinians:


"For Adam to return back to Earth, he will eventually need to fire his rockets to turn around. When he fires his rockets, Adam will still continue to think that his spaceship is standing still. However, in order to believe that his spaceship is standing still, he needs to also believe that there is now a gravitational field present that is cancelling out the force from his rockets. Adam will believe that this gravitational field exists throughout all of space, and that this gravitational field is causing the Earth and the rest of the universe to accelerate towards him. (...) Therefore, Adam will believe that the gravitational field is causing time on Earth to flow much faster than time on his ship. It is only during the very brief moment when Adam is firing his rockets to turn around that he believes this external gravitational field is present. For the remainder of his trip after he turns his rockets off, Adam will again view time on Earth as moving slowly. Nevertheless, during the very brief moments when he fires his engines, he sees time on Earth flowing so extremely fast that this far more than compensates for the fact that he sees time on Earth flowing slowly during the rest of his journey. This is why Adam will believe that more time has passed for Sarah than for him when he returns."

This idiotic "solution" of the twin paradox was fabricated by Einstein in 1918 ("A homogenous gravitational field appears" which can only reach the Earth in the beliefs of the traveling twin):

http://sciliterature.50webs.com/Dialog.htm
Albert Einstein 1918: "A homogenous gravitational field appears, that is directed towards the positive x-axis. Clock U1 is accelerated in the direction of the positive x-axis until it has reached the velocity v, then the gravitational field disappears again. An external force, acting upon U2 in the negative direction of the x-axis prevents U2 from being set in motion by the gravitational field. (...) According to the general theory of relativity, a clock will go faster the higher the gravitational potential of the location where it is located, and during partial process 3 U2 happens to be located at a higher gravitational potential than U1. The calculation shows that this speeding ahead constitutes exactly twice as much as the lagging behind during the partial processes 2 and 4."

Pentcho Valev
Pentcho Valev
2016-04-11 16:32:52 UTC
Permalink
Here is the original idiocy:

http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/
ON THE ECTRODYNAMICS OF MOVING BODIES, A. Einstein, 1905: "From this there ensues the following peculiar consequence. If at the points A and B of K there are stationary clocks which, viewed in the stationary system, are synchronous; and if the clock at A is moved with the velocity v along the line AB to B, then on its arrival at B the two clocks no longer synchronize, but the clock moved from A to B lags behind the other which has remained at B by tv^2/2c^2 (up to magnitudes of fourth and higher order), t being the time occupied in the journey from A to B."

Why is the moving clock slow and the stationary one fast? No such asymmetry follows from Einstein's 1905 postulates. What validly follows is that the moving clock is slow as judged from the stationary system, and the stationary clock is slow as judged from the moving system. Einstein's conclusion above (the moving clock "lags behind" the stationary one) is invalid - it does not follow from the postulates. So even if Einstein's 1905 postulates were true (actually the second one is false), there would be no difference in the clocks' readings.

Pentcho Valev
Gary Harnagel
2016-04-11 17:31:55 UTC
Permalink
It is idiocy only to an idiot.
Post by Pentcho Valev
http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/
Why is the moving clock slow and the stationary one fast?
Because the observer is at rest in the stationary system, of course.
Post by Pentcho Valev
No such asymmetry follows from Einstein's 1905 postulates. What validly
follows is that the moving clock is slow as judged from the stationary
system, and the stationary clock is slow as judged from the moving system.
Exactly.
Post by Pentcho Valev
Einstein's conclusion above (the moving clock "lags behind" the stationary
one) is invalid - it does not follow from the postulates.
Of course it's valid, demented one. He didn't "judge" it from the moving
system.
Post by Pentcho Valev
So even if Einstein's 1905 postulates were true (actually the second one
is false),
Actually, it's not, as confirmed by a multitude of experiments:

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/experiments.html#Tests_of_Einsteins_two_postulates
Post by Pentcho Valev
there would be no difference in the clocks' readings.
Pentcho Valev
Pentcho's ridiculous assertion is refuted by experiment. He is full of
baloney.

Gary
rotchm
2016-04-11 21:45:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pentcho Valev
This is idiotic isn't it?
Only for idiots who cant comprehend what is actually meant.
Post by Pentcho Valev
The traveling twin turns around, and this act of his miraculously
makes the distant stationary twin on the Earth older.
?? No, not at all. SR doest say that. Perhaps some authors *word it* that way, or some readers misinterprets whats written (like you), but SR doest say that.
Do the math and see for yourself what SR says.
Post by Pentcho Valev
The video below elaborates on the idiocy.
You are ready to believe in the vids, but not on the math. Why not?

<rest of crap snipped>
Mike Fontenot
2016-04-11 23:35:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pentcho Valev
The traveling twin turns around, and this act of his miraculously
makes the distant stationary twin on the Earth older.
The acceleration by the traveler causes the traveler's conclusions about
the home twin's current age to rapidly change (relative to the
traveler's own rate of ageing). If the traveler is accelerating TOWARD
the home twin, he will conclude that she is rapidly getting older
(assuming their separation is sufficiently great). If he is
accelerating AWAY FROM her, he will conclude that she is rapidly getting
younger (again assuming their separation is sufficiently great). But in
neither case does the home twin conclude that anything unusual is
happening to her rate of ageing. Nor do any other inertial observers
conclude that her rate of ageing is changing because of the traveler's
acceleration. It strictly has to do with the TRAVELER'S PERSPECTIVE of
her rate of ageing. And it is the rapid ageing of the home twin
(according to the traveler) during the turnaround that results in the
agreement of the two twins about their respective ages when they are
reunited, given that the traveler says she aged more slowly than he did
on the steady-speed portions of the trip.
--
https://sites.google.com/site/cadoequation/cado-reference-frame

"Accelerated Observers in Special Relativity", PHYSICS ESSAYS,
December 1999, p629.

All you ever need to know about the twin "paradox".
m***@wp.pl
2016-04-12 05:53:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by rotchm
Post by Pentcho Valev
This is idiotic isn't it?
Only for idiots who cant comprehend what is actually meant.
Post by Pentcho Valev
The traveling twin turns around, and this act of his miraculously
makes the distant stationary twin on the Earth older.
?? No, not at all. SR doest say that. Perhaps some authors *word it* that way, or some readers misinterprets whats written (like you), but SR doest say that.
Do the math and see for yourself what SR says.
Post by Pentcho Valev
The video below elaborates on the idiocy.
You are ready to believe in the vids, but not on the math. Why not?
When we're talking about math and believing it,
let's remind that your moronic guru rejected
its oldest and one of most trustful pieces,
because it was no fun for him.
But, of course, his Shit isn't math. It doesn't
meet formal requirements.
rotchm
2016-04-12 14:35:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@wp.pl
It doesn't
meet formal requirements.
But it does. You are just a reality denier. And what do you know about math? You admitted yourself that you cant even do highschool math.

Instead of making yourself look like a fool, why dont you go take a few adult classes or something, and come back in a few years when you will be ready.
Maciej Woźniak
2016-04-12 21:30:47 UTC
Permalink
Użytkownik "rotchm" napisał w wiadomości grup
Post by m***@wp.pl
It doesn't
meet formal requirements.
|But it does. You are just a reality denier.

No it doesn't. You are just a reality denier.

| And what do you know about math? You admitted yourself that you cant even
do highschool math.

And, of course, stupid, lying shit.
Pentcho Valev
2016-04-14 09:21:50 UTC
Permalink
Einstein was a subtle practitioner of doublethink - he was able to defend both thesis and antithesis with the same conviction and without any sign of remorse. So before the advent of Einstein's general relativity, the traveling-twin-is-younger tale was more than vulnerable in an analysis taking into account only the valid conclusions from Einstein's 1905 postulates. The youthfulness of the traveling twin was totally unjustifiable - the stationary twin sees his brother's clock running slow, the traveling twin sees his brother's clock running slow, and "the sudden change of direction" involving acceleration is immaterial, as Einstein had implicitly assumed in his 1905 paper and explicitly announced in 1911:

http://einsteinpapers.press.princeton.edu/vol3-trans/368
Einstein 1911: "The clock runs slower if it is in uniform motion, but if it undergoes a change of direction as a result of a jolt, then the theory of relativity does not tell us what happens. The sudden change of direction might produce a sudden change in the position of the hands of the clock. However, the longer the clock is moving rectilinearly and uniformly with a given speed in a forward motion, i.e., the larger the dimensions of the polygon, the smaller must be the effect of such a hypothetical sudden change."

In 1918 "the sudden change of direction" involving acceleration, which had been immaterial a couple of years before, became crucial:

http://sciliterature.50webs.com/Dialog.htm
Einstein 1918: "A homogenous gravitational field appears, that is directed towards the positive x-axis. Clock U1 is accelerated in the direction of the positive x-axis until it has reached the velocity v, then the gravitational field disappears again. An external force, acting upon U2 in the negative direction of the x-axis prevents U2 from being set in motion by the gravitational field. (...) According to the general theory of relativity, a clock will go faster the higher the gravitational potential of the location where it is located, and during partial process 3 U2 happens to be located at a higher gravitational potential than U1. The calculation shows that this speeding ahead constitutes exactly twice as much as the lagging behind during the partial processes 2 and 4."

Today's Einsteinians are all doublethinkers but not as subtle as Einstein. They accept both thesis and antithesis - the acceleration is immaterial and crucial at the same time - but in public they defend either one or the other - never both. So half of the Einsteinians teach that "the sudden change of direction" involving acceleration is immaterial, the other half teach that it is crucial:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/blogs/physics/2015/04/physics-needs-philosophy/
Tim Maudlin: "But even the great Richard Feynman did not always get the explanation right. In "The Feynman Lectures on Physics," he attributes the difference in ages to the acceleration one twin experiences: the twin who accelerates ends up younger. But it is easy to describe cases where the opposite is true, and even cases where neither twin accelerates but they end up different ages."

http://www.fnal.gov/pub/today/archive/archive_2014/today14-05-02_NutshellReadMore.html
Don Lincoln: "Some readers, probably including some of my doctoral-holding colleagues at Fermilab, will claim that the difference between the two twins is that one of the two has experienced an acceleration. (After all, that's how he slowed down and reversed direction.) However, the relativistic equations don't include that acceleration phase; they include just the coasting time at high velocity."

http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/research/gr/members/gibbons/gwgPartI_SpecialRelativity2010.pdf
Gary W. Gibbons FRS: "In other words, by simply staying at home Jack has aged relative to Jill. There is no paradox because the lives of the twins are not strictly symmetrical. This might lead one to suspect that the accelerations suffered by Jill might be responsible for the effect. However this is simply not plausible because using identical accelerating phases of her trip, she could have travelled twice as far. This would give twice the amount of time gained."

http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~djmorin/chap11.pdf
Introduction to Classical Mechanics With Problems and Solutions, David Morin, Cambridge University Press, Chapter 11, p. 14: "Twin A stays on the earth, while twin B flies quickly to a distant star and back. (...) For the entire outward and return parts of the trip, B does observe A's clock running slow, but enough strangeness occurs during the turning-around period to make A end up older."

http://www.pitt.edu/~jdnorton/teaching/HPS_0410/chapters/spacetime_tachyon/index.html
John Norton: "Then, at the end of the outward leg, the traveler abruptly changes motion, accelerating sharply to adopt a new inertial motion directed back to earth. What comes now is the key part of the analysis. The effect of the change of motion is to alter completely the traveler's judgment of simultaneity. The traveler's hypersurfaces of simultaneity now flip up dramatically. Moments after the turn-around, when the travelers clock reads just after 2 days, the traveler will judge the stay-at-home twin's clock to read just after 7 days. That is, the traveler will judge the stay-at-home twin's clock to have jumped suddenly from reading 1 day to reading 7 days. This huge jump puts the stay-at-home twin's clock so far ahead of the traveler's that it is now possible for the stay-at-home twin's clock to be ahead of the travelers when they reunite."

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Pentcho Valev
Gary Harnagel
2016-04-14 11:50:10 UTC
Permalink
[The usual delusional baloney.]
[Pentcho is] a subtle practitioner of doublethink
m***@wp.pl
2016-04-14 12:06:04 UTC
Permalink
[The usual delusional baloney.]
[Pentcho is] a subtle practitioner of doublethink
While relativistic morons are incredibly impudent
practitioners of doublethink.
Gary Harnagel
2016-04-14 13:19:56 UTC
Permalink
[The usual delusional baloney.]
[Pentcho is] a subtle practitioner of doublethink
While [reality-denying] morons like [Wozzie-boy] are incredibly impudent
practitioners of doublethink.
Get a life, dude!
m***@wp.pl
2016-04-14 13:37:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Harnagel
[The usual delusional baloney.]
[Pentcho is] a subtle practitioner of doublethink
While [reality-denying] morons like [Wozzie-boy] are incredibly impudent
practitioners of doublethink.
Get a life, dude!
Reality is - I didn't write what you wrote I wrote.
And real clocks are indicating t'=t...
And real observers see immobile trees and buildings...
So what can a brainwashed relativistic moron do?
He can lie.
David Waite
2016-04-14 13:52:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@wp.pl
Post by Gary Harnagel
[The usual delusional baloney.]
[Pentcho is] a subtle practitioner of doublethink
While [reality-denying] morons like [Wozzie-boy] are incredibly impudent
practitioners of doublethink.
Get a life, dude!
Reality is - I didn't write what you wrote I wrote.
And real clocks are indicating t'=t...
And real observers see immobile trees and buildings...
So what can a brainwashed relativistic moron do?
He can lie.
Yes we already know your such a moron that you'll argue against Galilean relativity too. You're an idiot even compared to an idiot religionist lunatic like Gary.
Gary Harnagel
2016-04-14 15:04:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Waite
Post by m***@wp.pl
Post by Gary Harnagel
Get a life, dude!
Reality is - I didn't write what you wrote I wrote.
And real clocks are indicating t'=t...
And real observers see immobile trees and buildings...
So what can a brainwashed relativistic moron do?
He can lie.
Yes we already know your such a moron that you'll argue against Galilean
relativity too. You're an idiot even compared to an idiot religionist
lunatic like Gary.
Wow, you really do carry a grudge, don't you! And all because I popped
your delusional bubble.

"Then there are the fanatical atheists whose intolerance is the same
as that of the religious fanatics, and it springs from the same source
… They are creatures who can’t hear the music of the spheres."
-- Albert Einstein
David Waite
2016-04-14 15:08:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Harnagel
Post by David Waite
Post by m***@wp.pl
Post by Gary Harnagel
Get a life, dude!
Reality is - I didn't write what you wrote I wrote.
And real clocks are indicating t'=t...
And real observers see immobile trees and buildings...
So what can a brainwashed relativistic moron do?
He can lie.
Yes we already know your such a moron that you'll argue against Galilean
relativity too. You're an idiot even compared to an idiot religionist
lunatic like Gary.
And all because I popped
your delusional bubble.
So much for not bearing false witness. Yeah I already know that you're just a lunatic religionist idiot.
Gary Harnagel
2016-04-14 17:52:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Waite
Yes we already know your such a moron that you'll argue against Galilean
relativity too. You're an idiot even compared to an idiot religionist
lunatic like Gary.
And all because I popped your delusional bubble.
So much for not bearing false witness.\
Why do you have such a delusional hangup about "bearing false witness"?
You obviously don't even know what that phrase means.
Yeah I already know that you're just a lunatic religionist idiot.
Nobody cares what you "know" because in some respects you're just like
the delusional and dishonest relativity-deniers. You are a fanatical
atheist.

"Then there are the fanatical atheists whose intolerance is the same
as that of the religious fanatics, and it springs from the same source
... They are creatures who can't hear the music of the spheres."
-- Albert Einstein
David Waite
2016-04-14 18:03:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Harnagel
Post by David Waite
Yes we already know your such a moron that you'll argue against Galilean
relativity too. You're an idiot even compared to an idiot religionist
lunatic like Gary.
And all because I popped your delusional bubble.
So much for not bearing false witness.\
Why do you have such a delusional hangup about "bearing false witness"?
You obviously don't even know what that phrase means.
So much for not bearing false witness. Yeah I already know you're a loony tunes immoral religionist idiot. Of course these pretty much go hand in hand. You can't be a religionist without the most vile form of dishonesty there is, dishonesty with yourself. I mean take this thread for example. You lied. I called you out on it and you lied some more. Its almost like you hate honesty. You're scum, and only you can change that.
Gary Harnagel
2016-04-14 23:38:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Waite
Post by Gary Harnagel
Post by David Waite
Yes we already know your such a moron that you'll argue against
Galilean relativity too. You're an idiot even compared to an
idiot religionist lunatic like Gary.
And all because I popped your delusional bubble.
So much for not bearing false witness.\
Why do you have such a delusional hangup about "bearing false witness"?
You obviously don't even know what that phrase means.
So much for not bearing false witness.
Oh, look, Waite pulls the old moldy cud out and chews it again. Moo-oo-oo!

[Really outrageous, intolerant, delusional loony rant deleted for sanitary
purposes]

Get yourself checked into the nearest asylum for the extremely angry. You
are a danger to society.
David Waite
2016-04-15 03:39:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Harnagel
Post by David Waite
Post by Gary Harnagel
Post by David Waite
Yes we already know your such a moron that you'll argue against
Galilean relativity too. You're an idiot even compared to an
idiot religionist lunatic like Gary.
And all because I popped your delusional bubble.
So much for not bearing false witness.\
Why do you have such a delusional hangup about "bearing false witness"?
You obviously don't even know what that phrase means.
So much for not bearing false witness.
Oh, look, Waite pulls the old moldy cud out and chews it again. Moo-oo-oo!
[Really outrageous, intolerant, delusional loony rant deleted for sanitary
purposes]
Get yourself checked into the nearest asylum for the extremely angry. You
are a danger to society.
See there you go bearing false witness some more. You're dishonest scum and as I said, only you can change that.
Gary Harnagel
2016-04-15 15:58:09 UTC
Permalink
[More stupidly arrogant ranting]
So what else is new? Yawn. So why does Waite post this errant nonsense?
Must be a mental problem.

"Then there are the fanatical atheists whose intolerance is the same
as that of the religious fanatics, and it springs from the same source
... They are creatures who can't hear the music of the spheres."
-- Albert Einstein
David Waite
2016-04-15 16:11:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Harnagel
Must be a mental problem.
More false witness, yeah you already showed us that you're a lying little scumbag. You've convinced me already.
Gary Harnagel
2016-04-15 18:37:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Harnagel
Must be a mental problem.
[More stupidly arrogant, mentally-disturbed and dishonest ranting]
So what else is new? This is just Waite re-chewing his moldy old cud like
the bovine-eyed non-thinker that he is. So why does Waite post this errant
nonsense? Must be a mental problem.

"Then there are the fanatical atheists whose intolerance is the same
as that of the religious fanatics, and it springs from the same source
... They are creatures who can't hear the music of the spheres."
-- Albert Einstein
David Waite
2016-04-20 10:31:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Harnagel
Must be a mental problem.
[More stupidly arrogant, mentally-disturbed and dishonest ranting]
More false witness typical of an immoral religionist idiot like yourself, got it.
Gary Harnagel
2016-04-20 15:15:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Waite
Post by Gary Harnagel
Must be a mental problem.
[More stupidly arrogant, mentally-disturbed and dishonest ranting]
More false witness typical of an immoral religionist idiot like yourself, got it.
I didn't say anything about religion, obsessed one. You need to eat some
carbs:

http://www.second-hand-news.com/overfocused.html

You may want to remain in a state of denial about this problem, but it is
IOTTMCO.
David Waite
2016-04-20 15:26:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Harnagel
Post by David Waite
Post by Gary Harnagel
Must be a mental problem.
[More stupidly arrogant, mentally-disturbed and dishonest ranting]
More false witness typical of an immoral religionist idiot like yourself, got it.
I didn't say anything about religion, obsessed one. You need to eat some
http://www.second-hand-news.com/overfocused.html
You may want to remain in a state of denial about this problem, but it is
IOTTMCO.
So you go on bearing false witness proving to everyone what an immoral religionist lying scumbag you are. Will you ever realize what a complete fool you've made of yourself? No, you're a religionist lying to yourself worst of all. Only you can change what a scumbag you are.
Gary Harnagel
2016-04-20 17:29:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Waite
Post by Gary Harnagel
Post by David Waite
Post by Gary Harnagel
Must be a mental problem.
[More stupidly arrogant, mentally-disturbed and dishonest ranting]
More false witness typical of an immoral religionist idiot like yourself, got it.
I didn't say anything about religion, obsessed one. You need to eat some
http://www.second-hand-news.com/overfocused.html
You may want to remain in a state of denial about this problem, but it is
IOTTMCO.
So you go on bearing false witness proving to everyone what an immoral
religionist lying scumbag you are.
Again, I didn't say anything about religion, it is YOU who have this unhealthy
compulsion to deny your inner feelings. It's a pity that someone like you
can't enjoy some of the greatest music ever written because of your unhealthy
obsession. Music like Handel's Messiah or Mendelsohn's Elijah.
Post by David Waite
Will you ever realize what a complete fool you've made of yourself?
I'm afraid YOU are the one making a fool of himself. This is a case of
classic psychological transference of you own shortcomings on others.
Post by David Waite
No, you're a religionist lying to yourself worst of all. Only you can
change what a scumbag you are.
Since you have absolutely no clue whatsoever what I believe, YOU are the liar,
cranking up your sorry old stereotyping machine as a substitute for knowledge.

"When you talk, you are only repeating what you [think you] already know.
But if you listen, you may learn something new." - Dalai Lama

For example, learning that you don't know anything about me. All I did
was quote a single verse from the Bible and that set of an attack of your
OCD. And when this happens, you certainly do look like a fool.

And since you snipped a very apt description of yourself, it begs to be
restored:

"Then there are the fanatical atheists whose intolerance is the same
as that of the religious fanatics, and it springs from the same source
... They are creatures who can't hear the music of the spheres."
-- Albert Einstein

Yes, your whole attitude about religion screams fanaticism.

So sad. Would you like me to pray for you?
Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog
2016-04-21 02:35:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Harnagel
Post by David Waite
So you go on bearing false witness proving to everyone what an immoral
religionist lying scumbag you are.
Again, I didn't say anything about religion, it is YOU who have this unhealthy
compulsion to deny your inner feelings. It's a pity that someone like you
can't enjoy some of the greatest music ever written because of your unhealthy
obsession. Music like Handel's Messiah or Mendelsohn's Elijah.
Post by David Waite
Will you ever realize what a complete fool you've made of yourself?
I'm afraid YOU are the one making a fool of himself. This is a case of
classic psychological transference of you own shortcomings on others.
Post by David Waite
No, you're a religionist lying to yourself worst of all. Only you can
change what a scumbag you are.
Since you have absolutely no clue whatsoever what I believe, YOU are the liar,
cranking up your sorry old stereotyping machine as a substitute for knowledge.
"When you talk, you are only repeating what you [think you] already know.
But if you listen, you may learn something new." - Dalai Lama
For example, learning that you don't know anything about me. All I did
was quote a single verse from the Bible and that set of an attack of your
OCD. And when this happens, you certainly do look like a fool.
And since you snipped a very apt description of yourself, it begs to be
"Then there are the fanatical atheists whose intolerance is the same
as that of the religious fanatics, and it springs from the same source
... They are creatures who can't hear the music of the spheres."
-- Albert Einstein
Yes, your whole attitude about religion screams fanaticism.
So sad. Would you like me to pray for you?
David, Gary, will you two stop going after each other like this? Your feud is
completely off-topic.

David has improved immensely since the days when he was on the shit-list of
Chris Hillman, Stephen Speicher, Daryl McCullough, Simon Clark, Tim Shuba,
etc. etc. all the way down to myself (who posted under a different nym back
then).

From the little that I have bothered to read of his current posts, he has
repaired the major holes in his understanding that led to his being shunned
10-15 years ago. He has shown an ability to learn, and that means that he is
far above the crackpot crowd that dominates these groups.

The mere fact that he has major personality flaws as well as dislikes me
immensely is no reason for me to fail to appreciate him for his good points.

The same should go for you, Gary.
Gary Harnagel
2016-04-21 03:23:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog
Post by Gary Harnagel
Post by David Waite
So you go on bearing false witness proving to everyone what an immoral
religionist lying scumbag you are.
Again, I didn't say anything about religion, it is YOU who have this
unhealthy compulsion to deny your inner feelings. It's a pity that
someone like you can't enjoy some of the greatest music ever written
because of your unhealthy obsession. Music like Handel's Messiah or
Mendelsohn's Elijah.
Post by David Waite
Will you ever realize what a complete fool you've made of yourself?
I'm afraid YOU are the one making a fool of himself. This is a case of
classic psychological transference of you own shortcomings on others.
Post by David Waite
No, you're a religionist lying to yourself worst of all. Only you can
change what a scumbag you are.
Since you have absolutely no clue whatsoever what I believe, YOU are
the liar, cranking up your sorry old stereotyping machine as a
substitute for knowledge.
"When you talk, you are only repeating what you [think you] already know.
But if you listen, you may learn something new." - Dalai Lama
For example, learning that you don't know anything about me. All I did
was quote a single verse from the Bible and that set of an attack of your
OCD. And when this happens, you certainly do look like a fool.
And since you snipped a very apt description of yourself, it begs to be
"Then there are the fanatical atheists whose intolerance is the same
as that of the religious fanatics, and it springs from the same source
... They are creatures who can't hear the music of the spheres."
-- Albert Einstein
Yes, your whole attitude about religion screams fanaticism.
So sad. Would you like me to pray for you?
David, Gary, will you two stop going after each other like this? Your
feud is completely off-topic.
He is the one that restarted his ridiculous campaign, and I will respond
when he posts lies about me.
Post by Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog
David has improved immensely since the days when he was on the shit-list of
Chris Hillman, Stephen Speicher, Daryl McCullough, Simon Clark, Tim Shuba,
etc. etc. all the way down to myself (who posted under a different nym back
then).
From the little that I have bothered to read of his current posts, he has
repaired the major holes in his understanding that led to his being shunned
10-15 years ago. He has shown an ability to learn, and that means that he is
far above the crackpot crowd that dominates these groups.
Yes, and I have complimented him on that. Unfortunately, when I do so he
attacks.
Post by Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog
The mere fact that he has major personality flaws as well as dislikes me
immensely is no reason for me to fail to appreciate him for his good points.
The same should go for you, Gary.
And I do, but I will defend myself when he mounts his lying attacks.
David Waite
2016-04-25 15:43:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Harnagel
Post by David Waite
Post by Gary Harnagel
Post by David Waite
Post by Gary Harnagel
Must be a mental problem.
[More stupidly arrogant, mentally-disturbed and dishonest ranting]
More false witness typical of an immoral religionist idiot like yourself,
got it.
I didn't say anything about religion, obsessed one. You need to eat some
http://www.second-hand-news.com/overfocused.html
You may want to remain in a state of denial about this problem, but it is
IOTTMCO.
So you go on bearing false witness proving to everyone what an immoral
religionist lying scumbag you are.
Again, I didn't say anything about religion, it is YOU who have this unhealthy
compulsion to deny your inner feelings. It's a pity that someone like you
can't enjoy some of the greatest music ever written because of your unhealthy
obsession. Music like Handel's Messiah or Mendelsohn's Elijah.
Post by David Waite
Will you ever realize what a complete fool you've made of yourself?
I'm afraid YOU are the one making a fool of himself. This is a case of
classic psychological transference of you own shortcomings on others.
Post by David Waite
No, you're a religionist lying to yourself worst of all. Only you can
change what a scumbag you are.
Since you have absolutely no clue whatsoever what I believe,
You lying criminal little scumbag. What the hell is wrong with you? Fvcking grow up. You can't quote your immoral religionist BLLSHT texts and then claim I don't know what you believe MORON.
Gary Harnagel
2016-04-25 19:42:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Harnagel
[Stupidly moronic compulsive recursive idiotic repetitious nonsense
deleted]
So you go on bearing false witness proving to everyone what an immoral
religionist lying scumbag you are.
Again, I didn't say anything about religion, it is YOU who have this
unhealthy compulsion to deny your inner feelings. It's a pity that
someone like you can't enjoy some of the greatest music ever written
because of your unhealthy obsession. Music like Handel's Messiah or
Mendelsohn's Elijah.
Will you ever realize what a complete fool you've made of yourself?
I'm afraid YOU are the one making a fool of himself. This is a case of
classic psychological transference of you own shortcomings on others.
No, you're a religionist lying to yourself worst of all. Only you can
change what a scumbag you are.
Since you have absolutely no clue whatsoever what I believe,
You lying criminal little scumbag. What the hell is wrong with you? Fvcking\
grow up.
I'm not the one behaving like a schoolyard bully.
You can't quote your immoral religionist BLLSHT texts and then claim I don't
know what you believe MORON.
You are just plain psycho and YOU are the one who needs to grow up. Your
intolerance of others who disagree with you is symptomatic of a rising
generation of self-absorbed pussyfoots and wimps.

And no, you do NOT know what I believe. YOU started ranting baloney when I
posted a quote from the Bible that is IOTTMCO correct, regardless of one's
religion (or lack thereof). If your intolerance is that extreme, you really
need to take a good long look at yourself before you fly off the handle
again. Remember what Saint Albert said:

"Then there are the fanatical atheists whose intolerance is the same
as that of the religious fanatics, and it springs from the same source
... They are creatures who can't hear the music of the spheres."
-- Albert Einstein

:-)

And note that everyone sees the world differently:

"A man sees in the world what he carries in his heart." - Goethe

You seem to be So certain that your beliefs about me are correct:

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always
so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."
-- Bertrand Russell

"You never look good trying to make someone else look bad."
-- TobyMac
David Waite
2016-04-25 20:11:35 UTC
Permalink
You are just plain psycho ...
See there you go again, not one ounce of honesty in you, lying little fvcking scumbag.
Gary Harnagel
2016-04-25 20:37:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Waite
You are just plain psycho ...
See there you go again, not one ounce of honesty in you, lying little fvcking scumbag.
"If you can't be interesting without profanity, then let's face it: You're not
that interesting." -- Michael Hyatt

Don't be such a buffoon. Your behavior is definitely characteristic of
one who is mentally disturbed. Every time you post your rants it just
supports that claim. So keep on posting your stupid rants and prove me
right.

"You never look good trying to make someone else look bad."
-- TobyMac
David Waite
2016-04-26 07:21:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Harnagel
Don't be such a buffoon. Your behavior is definitely characteristic of
one who is mentally disturbed.
And like a moth to a flame, you can't resits every time I call you out on lying, returning to the thread with more lies. Yes, I already know you're a completely immoral lying scumbag as you repeat doing it again and again and again, like if you were programmed with no free will.
Gary Harnagel
2016-04-26 14:37:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Waite
Post by Gary Harnagel
Don't be such a buffoon. Your behavior is definitely characteristic of
one who is mentally disturbed.
And like a moth to a flame, you can't resits every time I call you out on
lying,
Because you are lying about me lying.
Post by David Waite
returning to the thread with more lies.
When you keep telling lies, I'll keep explaining why you do.
Post by David Waite
Yes, I already know you're a completely immoral lying scumbag as you
repeat doing it again and again and again, like if you were programmed
with no free will.
Yes, I already know you're a completely immoral lying scumbag as you
repeat lying about me again and again and again, like if you were
programmed with no free will, which you must obviously believe because
you are a deterministic nutjob. You even castigated an old prof of
mine that claimed quantum mechanics refuted determinism. YOU are the
fool that believes that the universe determines what you do so whatever
you do isn't your fault. I know that that is just excusing your bad
behavior: Your atrocious behavior IS your fault.
David Waite
2016-04-26 17:43:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Harnagel
Because you are lying about me lying.
See there you go again. I once again call you out on lying and you once again can't help yourself but to respond with more lies. You are a lying little scumbag certainly utterly beneath me and only you can change that.
Gary Harnagel
2016-04-26 19:58:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Waite
Post by Gary Harnagel
Because you are lying about me lying.
See there you go again. I once again call you out on lying and you once
again can't help yourself but to respond with more lies.
I'm NOT lying. YOU are the liar and you heap abuse on an honest person.
Post by David Waite
You are a lying little scumbag certainly utterly beneath me
"You never look good trying to make someone else look bad."
-- TobyMac
Post by David Waite
and only you can change that.
That is an oxymoron for you because you believe in determinism. I adhere
to the concept of free agency.

"Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt

So everyone can see what kind of a mind you have :-)

Isn't it about time you stopped the abusive behavior and started acting
like a normal human being? You really DO have free agency.
David Waite
2016-04-27 05:04:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Harnagel
Post by David Waite
Post by Gary Harnagel
Because you are lying about me lying.
See there you go again. I once again call you out on lying and you once
again can't help yourself but to respond with more lies.
I'm NOT lying. Y
See, you just did it again, called you out on lying any you responded with even more lies, pathological.
Gary Harnagel
2016-04-27 11:05:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Waite
Post by Gary Harnagel
Post by David Waite
Post by Gary Harnagel
Because you are lying about me lying.
See there you go again. I once again call you out on lying and you once
again can't help yourself but to respond with more lies.
I'm NOT lying. Y
My, my, but you are careless at your dishonest snipping :-)
Post by David Waite
See, you just did it again, called you out on lying any you responded
with even more lies, pathological.
Your outrageous assertion is a circular argument that presumes that I'm
a liar in order to prove that I'm a liar. OTOH, your abusive behavior
is plain for everyone to see, yet you don't see it. This says a LOT
more about you than it does about me.

"You never look good trying to make someone else look bad."
-- TobyMac
David Waite
2016-04-27 12:55:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Harnagel
My, my, but you are careless at your dishonest snipping :-)
There you go again, utterly immoral lying little scumbag. How many have you snipped? And yet lie calling it dishonest when I do it in return, damn you are utterly beneath me responding with more lies every single time I call you out on lying.
Gary Harnagel
2016-04-27 17:03:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Waite
Post by Gary Harnagel
My, my, but you are careless at your dishonest snipping :-)
There you go again, utterly immoral lying little scumbag.
So you dishonestly claim you DIDN'T snip? Or that you carelessly snipped
in the middle of a word?
Post by David Waite
How many have you snipped?
I'm not obsessive/compulsive like you are. I only snip to remove old
irrelevant stuff.
Post by David Waite
And yet lie calling it dishonest when I do it in return,
What you do is NOT "in return." You snip recent stuff that shows you up
for what you are.
Post by David Waite
damn you are utterly beneath me responding with more lies every single
time I call you out on lying.
I have NEVER lied to you. Apparently you don't understand the meaning of
that word and just fling it around in a dishonest attempt to intimidate.

And, BTW:

"If you can't be interesting without profanity, then let's face it: You're not
that interesting." -- Michael Hyatt

"You never look good trying to make someone else look bad."
-- TobyMac

And also, BTW, since you didn't deny that you don't believe in free will,
I'll just have to presume that you are greatly conflicted in your outlook
on life. Why do you expect you can change others by your intimidation
and boorishness? Don't you realize that, according to your belief, every-
thing was determined at the big bang? :-))

"I'm laughing at your superior intellect." -- James T. Kirk
David Waite
2016-04-27 19:35:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Harnagel
I'm not obsessive/compulsive like you are.
See there again, you can't help but respond with even more and more lies every time I call you out on lying, scumbag.
Gary Harnagel
2016-04-27 20:04:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Waite
Post by Gary Harnagel
I'm not obsessive/compulsive like you are.
See there again, you can't help but respond with even more and more lies
every time I call you out on lying, scumbag.
You obviously don't know the difference between opinions and lies. I can
only form an opinion from the outrageous nonsense you write, such as what
you wrote in this one. Integrating over all of your posts leads me to
conclude that you have mental problems. Consequently, I will from now on
leave you to play with your mental blocks all by yourself.

"Your mind is a garden,
Your thoughts are the seeds.
You can grow flowers
Or you can grow weeds."
-- Anonymous

"Be kinder than necessary,
because everyone you meet
is fighting some kind of battle."
-- Anonymous

"Open your mouth only if what you are going to say is more beautiful
than silence." -- Arabic proverb

"Be an example of the kind of conduct you wish to see in the
world. Do not expect love, excellence or generosity if you do
not radiate such things." - Brendon Burchard

"Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance."
- Albert Einstein

"A man sees in the world what he carries in his heart." - Goethe

"There's only one person you're guaranteed to spend the rest of your
Life with ... yourself. Don't live the rest of your life with an asshole."
- QuoteGate
David Waite
2016-04-28 03:39:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Harnagel
Post by David Waite
Post by Gary Harnagel
I'm not obsessive/compulsive like you are.
See there again, you can't help but respond with even more and more lies
every time I call you out on lying, scumbag.
You obviously don't know the difference between opinions and lies.
Blah blah more lies from you in response to being called out on lying. Yeah I already knew you were a dishonest scumbag.
m***@wp.pl
2016-04-26 05:48:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Waite
You are just plain psycho ...
See there you go again, not one ounce of honesty in you, lying little fvcking scumbag.
Exceptionally, you're both right here.
Maciej Woźniak
2016-04-14 15:46:32 UTC
Permalink
Użytkownik "David Waite" napisał w wiadomości grup
Post by m***@wp.pl
Post by Gary Harnagel
W dniu czwartek, 14 kwietnia 2016 13:50:13 UTC+2 użytkownik Gary
[The usual delusional baloney.]
[Pentcho is] a subtle practitioner of doublethink
While [reality-denying] morons like [Wozzie-boy] are incredibly impudent
practitioners of doublethink.
Get a life, dude!
Reality is - I didn't write what you wrote I wrote.
And real clocks are indicating t'=t...
And real observers see immobile trees and buildings...
So what can a brainwashed relativistic moron do?
He can lie.
|Yes we already know your such a moron that you'll argue against Galilean
relativity too. You're an idiot even compared to an idiot religionist
lunatic like Gary.

Observer on a street will surely see trees and buildings running around.
So said The Shit!!!
So said Galileo, Great Guru!!!
So, it must be the truth.
And who doesn't believe observer will see it is
STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gary Harnagel
2016-04-14 17:53:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maciej Woźniak
Observer on a street will surely see trees and buildings running around.
So said The Shit!!!
So said Galileo, Great Guru!!!
So, it must be the truth.
And who doesn't believe observer will see it is
STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The REALLY stupid one believes that trees and buildings define an absolute
reference frame :-)))
Maciej Woźniak
2016-04-14 19:54:56 UTC
Permalink
Użytkownik "Gary Harnagel" napisał w wiadomości grup
Post by Maciej Woźniak
Observer on a street will surely see trees and buildings running around.
So said The Shit!!!
So said Galileo, Great Guru!!!
So, it must be the truth.
And who doesn't believe observer will see it is
STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|The REALLY stupid one believes that trees and buildings define an absolute
|reference frame :-)))

Geocentrism is surely not as primitive, as observercentrism of
a relativistic moron, but, still, it's obsolete for a long time.
JanPB
2016-04-14 20:10:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maciej Woźniak
Użytkownik "Gary Harnagel" napisał w wiadomości grup
Post by Maciej Woźniak
Observer on a street will surely see trees and buildings running around.
So said The Shit!!!
So said Galileo, Great Guru!!!
So, it must be the truth.
And who doesn't believe observer will see it is
STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|The REALLY stupid one believes that trees and buildings define an absolute
|reference frame :-)))
Geocentrism is surely not as primitive, as observercentrism of
a relativistic moron, but, still, it's obsolete for a long time.
Your objection misses the point. Physics does its work by constructing
mathematical models of certain aspects of reality. (Reality is not accessible
to us directly - if it were, nobody would bother with physics, reality
would simply be a given.) These models have certain properties, observers'
properties being one of them.

What you are doing is projecting these back onto reality itself, as if
such a thing was ever intended. It's not. Your objection is meaningless
since is refers to nothing.

--
Jan
Maciej Woźniak
2016-04-14 21:36:15 UTC
Permalink
Użytkownik "JanPB" napisał w wiadomości grup
Post by Maciej Woźniak
Użytkownik "Gary Harnagel" napisał w wiadomości grup
Post by Maciej Woźniak
Observer on a street will surely see trees and buildings running around.
So said The Shit!!!
So said Galileo, Great Guru!!!
So, it must be the truth.
And who doesn't believe observer will see it is
STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|The REALLY stupid one believes that trees and buildings define an absolute
|reference frame :-)))
Geocentrism is surely not as primitive, as observercentrism of
a relativistic moron, but, still, it's obsolete for a long time.
|Your objection misses the point. Physics does its work by constructing
|mathematical models of certain aspects of reality. (Reality is not
accessible

So why do you always say models are irrelevant, poor idiot?

Anyway, no, my objection doesn't miss anything. Geocentric models
are surely not as primitive, as observercentrism of a relativistic moron,
but they are still obsolete for some hundred years.
JanPB
2016-04-14 22:09:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maciej Woźniak
Użytkownik "JanPB" napisał w wiadomości grup
Post by Maciej Woźniak
Użytkownik "Gary Harnagel" napisał w wiadomości grup
Post by Maciej Woźniak
Observer on a street will surely see trees and buildings running around.
So said The Shit!!!
So said Galileo, Great Guru!!!
So, it must be the truth.
And who doesn't believe observer will see it is
STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|The REALLY stupid one believes that trees and buildings define an absolute
|reference frame :-)))
Geocentrism is surely not as primitive, as observercentrism of
a relativistic moron, but, still, it's obsolete for a long time.
|Your objection misses the point. Physics does its work by constructing
|mathematical models of certain aspects of reality. (Reality is not
accessible
So why do you always say models are irrelevant, poor idiot?
Anyway, no, my objection doesn't miss anything. Geocentric models
are surely not as primitive, as observercentrism of a relativistic moron,
but they are still obsolete for some hundred years.
You understood nothing.

--
Jan
m***@wp.pl
2016-04-15 06:13:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by JanPB
Post by Maciej Woźniak
Użytkownik "JanPB" napisał w wiadomości grup
Post by Maciej Woźniak
Użytkownik "Gary Harnagel" napisał w wiadomości grup
Post by Maciej Woźniak
Observer on a street will surely see trees and buildings running around.
So said The Shit!!!
So said Galileo, Great Guru!!!
So, it must be the truth.
And who doesn't believe observer will see it is
STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|The REALLY stupid one believes that trees and buildings define an absolute
|reference frame :-)))
Geocentrism is surely not as primitive, as observercentrism of
a relativistic moron, but, still, it's obsolete for a long time.
|Your objection misses the point. Physics does its work by constructing
|mathematical models of certain aspects of reality. (Reality is not
accessible
So why do you always say models are irrelevant, poor idiot?
Anyway, no, my objection doesn't miss anything. Geocentric models
are surely not as primitive, as observercentrism of a relativistic moron,
but they are still obsolete for some hundred years.
You understood nothing.
Stop playing a guru. You're a quite poor mathematician,
but when talking about models you're not even an
amaeur.
Gary Harnagel
2016-04-14 15:01:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@wp.pl
Post by Gary Harnagel
While [reality-denying] morons like [Wozzie-boy] are incredibly impudent
practitioners of doublethink.
Get a life, dude!
Reality is - I didn't write what you wrote I wrote.
Sure, I wrote the truth and you wrote reality-denying baloney.
Post by m***@wp.pl
And real clocks are indicating t'=t...
See? Proof that you're a reality-denying vacuum-head.
Post by m***@wp.pl
And real observers see immobile trees and buildings...
So what can a brainwashed relativistic moron do?
He can lie.
Look at yourself, dude.
Maciej Woźniak
2016-04-14 15:47:35 UTC
Permalink
Użytkownik "Gary Harnagel" napisał w wiadomości grup
Post by m***@wp.pl
Post by Gary Harnagel
While [reality-denying] morons like [Wozzie-boy] are incredibly impudent
practitioners of doublethink.
Get a life, dude!
Reality is - I didn't write what you wrote I wrote.
|Sure, I wrote the truth and you wrote reality-denying baloney.


It's actually you who announced GPS clocks as not real,
because they don't match The Shit.
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